Health

National Health Insurance Act Passes

H.R. 676, the United States National Health Insurance Act, also known as “expanded and improved Medicare for all,” has moved through Congress, and is expected to be signed into law shortly. The legislation provides publicly funded health insurance, with a free choice of health care providers, for every United States citizen and permanent resident.

Doctors operate on a patient who previously would have been denied care.

Doctors operate on a patient who previously would have been denied care.

After the bill passed, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi declared, “We can now proudly say that the United States has caught up with the rest of the developed world in granting all our citizens access to high-quality, comprehensive medical care.”

Prior to the bill’s passage, the U.S. health care system was widely regarded to be in a state of severe crisis. Over 46 million Americans have been without health insurance and another 50 million have been under-insured. Despite spending more money per capita on health care than any other nation, the U.S. has lagged behind many countries in such key health-related categories as life expectancy, infant mortality, and preventable deaths. The Institute of Medicine estimates that in recent years approximately 22,000 people have died annually in the U.S. due to a lack of health insurance. Furthermore, nearly one million Americans, many who have private health insurance plans, have filed for bankruptcy each year because they have been unable to pay medical bills. In recent polls, a clear majority of Americans have said they believe government should guarantee health care for all U.S. residents.

Despite growing popular support for a single-payer system, Pelosi acknowledged that Congress would not have voted for this bill without the dedicated grassroots organizing of national groups like Healthcare-NOW and Physicians for a National Health Program, regional groups like the California Nurses Association and the New York-based Private Health Insurance Must Go Coalition, and over 450 union organizations across the country that had endorsed H.R. 676. Pelosi said that many formerly undecided congressional representatives were also swayed by seeing Michael Moore’s film, “Sicko,” and by the cogent arguments presented in a 2008 pocket-sized book, “10 Excellent Reasons for National Health Care,” edited by Mary E. O’Brien and Martha Livingston, that was given to every member of Congress.

Under the private insurance system that has been in place until now, 30 percent of health insurance premiums have gone toward administrative costs, including advertising, profits, and executive salaries. This compares with a 3 percent cost for administering Medicare. Moving from the private health insurance system to single-payer is expected to save $350 billion dollars each year, enough to fund health care for those who are currently uninsured or under-insured. Under H.R. 676, the expanded Medicare for All system will be paid for through a 3.3 percent payroll tax on employers and employees, a stock transfer tax, an income tax surcharge on the top 5 percent of taxpayers, and by reversing the Bush tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans. According to the Congressional Budget Office, most U.S. residents — including those who previously received employer-based coverage–will pay less for this new public health insurance than they did for their private insurance, since there will no longer be any premium, copay, or deductible charges.

Eliminating private insurance companies, including HMOs, and moving to a publicly administered system will be no simple task. The private health-care industry is enormous, employing over 14 million people and costing 2.3 trillion dollars in 2007.

“The transition to a single-payer system will be our biggest challenge for the next 3 years, and a significant struggle even after this bill is signed,” said John Conyers, Democrat of Michigan, who introduced and fought for the legislation. “But with the support of the American people, I have no doubt that we will reach our goal.” In order to make the transition easier for industry workers, H.R. 676 gives former employees of private health insurers first priority for the public-sector jobs that will need to be created to run the new program.

Many Republicans in Congress remain opposed to the new plan, arguing that quality care is best provided by private industry and free markets. Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich released a statement saying: “Only market competition can bring choice and lower prices. To see the opposite trend is to be obtuse and shortsighted.” During the House floor debate, some cited claims about long waits for treatment under a similar single-payer system of medical care in Canada; these claims have been discredited by most independent researchers.

The medical services industry is promising to challenge the new bill. In an e-mail to investors, Kaiser chief George Halvorson wrote: “I remain exclusively committed as always to our investors and we plan on using every resource to protect our interests, against which this measure is obviously aimed.” Cigna C.E.O. H. Edward Hanway issued a similar statement: “HMOs have been in business for decades. Now Washington insiders want to take away our profits, our investments, and our property. That is unacceptable, and we will fight tooth and nail to insure our rights under our nation’s Constitution.”

“There has been a long-accepted myth, which is now thankfully receding, that if it’s private, it must be more efficient,” said Secretary of Health and Human Services, former Oregon Governor Dr. John Kitzhaber. “Yet our private, largely for-profit system was bloated, redundant, inefficient, and much more expensive than the better-performing national health care models of many other countries. Plus, many Americans were growing increasingly frustrated with private insurers acting as gatekeepers interfering in doctor-patient decisions, and with receiving denial letters from insurance bureaucrats sitting in cubicles far removed from their medical diagnoses. The single-payer system we will be implementing under H.R. 676 will be a vast improvement over the previous, dysfunctional health care model. And it will pay for itself by eliminating the waste and duplication of the private health insurance industry.”

When reached, a member of the Coordinating Committee of the Private Health Insurance Must Go Coalition noted that the momentum for a single-payer health care system grew after the October 2008 Wall Street bailout: “After the bailout, the American people saw more clearly than ever that our social needs were not always going to be met by private industry or the so-called ‘free market.’ There were no more valid excuses for inaction. If government was able to provide a safety net to Wall Street, it was capable of providing the American people with some real health-care security. After all, it’s not only the financial industry that has been affected by the economic downturn. It’s about time that the U.S. has joined the rest of the planet in recognizing that health care access is both a necessity and a human right. During these difficult times, a single-payer system should help to ease the financial strain that people are feeling and might even help stimulate the overall economy.”

Unlike the response from company executives, reaction to the passage of H.R. 676 among insurance industry employees has been largely positive. Sarah Schwartz, a Cigna medical records specialist in Ohio, said: “I’ll get retraining. They need people who do what I do. I’ll get different forms and procedures, that’s all. Plus this new system will be much better for the patients, so that feels good.” When asked about other changes the new law will bring, Schwartz told the Times about her aging mother who, at 71, continues to work at a full-time office job. “She almost got laid off last year, which meant my dad wouldn’t have been able to see a doctor for his heart problems anymore, since he was covered under her plan. For our family, this bill passed just in time.”

“Health care should be like water — a right for everyone. Anything less is barbaric,” said a spokesperson for Physicians for a National Health Program, an organization that has advocated for health care reform since 1987.

In recent years, a majority of physicians had grown tired of the growing, confusing, and sometimes disruptive role of the private insurance companies, with a 2008 poll showing 59 percent of doctors supporting a single-payer system. At an American Medical Association banquet last night, a spontaneous standing ovation occurred when doctors learned of the bill’s success. A.M.A. President Nancy Nielsen, M.D. said in her speech: “We’re trained to save lives. We’re trained to practice medicine. Finally, we can do what we entered this field to do — practice with the interest of patients at heart.”

138 Comments so far ...

[...] This morning, New Yorkers were gifted with free copies of the NY Times on the street - but they weren’t just any New York Times. They were copies from the future, dated July 4, 2009, and headlined with the long-awaited news: “IRAQ WAR OVER.” The copies, bearing the same look and feel as the real deal, are filled with other fake news stories pointing to the pranksters’ hopes of what the future could hold (i.e., “New York Bike Path System Expanded Dramatically” and “National Health Insurance Act Passes.”) [...]

Pingback on November 12, 2008 02:01 pm
2. Mythbusters

What a load of socialist bullshit! Do you really think something that simplistic will repair health care in the US without wreaking long-term economic havoc? Even Canada (your so-called “ideal” system) made the change over decades and province by province. It wasn’t until 1971 that New Brunswick became the last province to join the “single-payer” system. And this “single-payer” system is still administered by provincial health authorities with their own budgets.

Comment on November 12, 2008 03:34 pm
3. Dave

Hey since my big New York salary was lowered to $182,520/year (due to the new max pay law), most of it will go to housing and feeding myself. With this new “health” and “wealth” system I cannot wait for the long lines for the liver transplant and I cannot afford the liver transplant that I can get in China or India.

Comment on November 12, 2008 05:10 pm
4. Linda

Hey Dave! Have a nice trip to China or India! Maybe, in your absence I can get your job which pays 3 times what I make as a full-time, graduate-degreed teacher.

Comment on November 12, 2008 07:42 pm

Hey Socialism beats insurance executives making 9-figure salaries while doctors and hospitals take it on the chin, and lawyers suck the blood out of the system one 7-figure lawsuit at a time. Yeah, my insurance-less patients just love your conservative “every man for himself, and I’ve got more guns”. Mythbusters my ass…crapslingers it what you right wingers have been for years. Why don’t you go back to your cave and make up more lies about gay marriage threatening the family!

Comment on November 13, 2008 02:24 am

Considering that 8 out of 10 Americans are deficient in vitamin D, it’s no surprise that both our old and our new health care system were/are expensive, what with high rates of ADD, asthma, cancer, depression, diabetes, heart disease, MS, and more—all that respond to adequate D.

See why modern Americans can’t get enough D from food or sunlight at http://goodschoolfood.org/vitamin_dropout.shtml, and what we can do about it.

By the way, D deficiency also explains the Achievement Gap, i.e. why students of color lag behind whites. It’s not racist teachers, it’s not the Bell Curve. It’s our oblivious public health system, headed by mostly pale people, who think 400 IU a day is enough. Google Dr. Azzie Young at the Mattapan Community Health Center to see how it should be done!

Comment on November 13, 2008 03:10 am
7. Katja Isaksen

Well I doubt that this will ever come true but I hope it will for you guy’s sake. I’m Norwegian, pay over 30% tax on my salary and I do it happily in the knowledge that if I fall ill it won’t bankrupt me, that my future children will be able to go to whatever school or university they choose for free (like I did), that if I lose my job I won’t starve or end up on the street, etc etc. Sure there are issues as to what they government should spend more on, but all in all we’re very well off. And if someone isn’t happy with the public system they’re perfectly free to pay for something themselves.

Comment on November 13, 2008 04:10 am

Thank God I live in Holland, Amsterdam Where we dont have to worry about health care,but you can walk in to any hospital for medical aid without paying one cent.America wake up, once you were the world leader,now your just a fascist state,and the world hates you more every day for the dumb ass decisions of your administration.Obama,change is needed.

Comment on November 13, 2008 10:42 am
9. Angela

Hey Linda,

Maybe you should have picked the private sector instead of leeching off the public. And maybe if the kids could actually read when they graduate.

The elementary school teachers here all drive Lexuses…just sayin’…

Comment on November 13, 2008 11:22 am
10. AngelaT

Having visited both Norway and Holland - I’d be happy to allow the left wing to go live there, and leave us Americans the right to live and die free instead of the complacent neutered species that those people have devolved into.

Comment on November 13, 2008 11:24 am
11. Marie

I knew I couldn’t read any of these responses without the word “socialism” appearing somewhere! Good grief. As though “socialism” were some scary monster lurking under the bed! WE ALREADY HAVE SOCIALISM IN THIS COUNTRY. Okay? Get over it. Though, personally I think it is a strange word to apply to services like public libraries, public schools, Medicare, the VA system, the postal service, about 50% of the cost of tuition in public institutions of higher ed, etc. There is no reason whatsoever that this country could not expand the concepts of Medicare or the VA system to all of its citizens. The infastructure is already in place, and believe me, Medicare or the VA do NOT spend 30 percent of health insurance premiums on administrative costs!!!

All I want is the SAME health care my president has. The SAME health care my congress has. I am certainly not asking for SOCIALISM!!

I work with a woman who works for under $10 an hour at two jobs, 56 hours a week, and has $90,000 in student loan debt. She has health insurance but has not been to a doctor since her son was born 14 years ago. She can’t afford the co-pays, deductibles, etc. She’s 50 and last time I checked, she should be getting routine mammograms and colonoscopies. If we had a national health insurance, she could.

I’ve always thought it interesting that a doctor takes an oath to “first do no harm.” Yet, every time an insurance company overrides a doctor’s decision in the treatment of a patient, the doctor is doing just that: harming the patient. Insurance companies hand-cuff doctors because they only care about the bottom line, about making a profit. They could care less about the person behind the insurance ID number.

Something else people continually fail to see–especially Americans because they are so pragmatic and can only see black-and-white, either/or, this not that, etc. There is no reason we cannot have a hybrid economic system in this country with some things being private and some things being public. My god, our system won’t collapse if we do! In fact, it could strengthen it. Imagine the productivity gains of a healthy workforce?

Comment on November 13, 2008 11:28 am
12. Marine Iraq War Vet

Socialism at it’s finest. What a load of crap. Please, someone explain to me why I should give away my hard earned money to support some lazy ass, because we all know that is who is going to benefit from this. Lots of jobs out there people…if you don’t have the ambition to excel and make more money for yourself, then too damn bad…stay away from my hard earned money. I wish we lived in a world where everyone could have some type of health insurance, but STEALING my money for someone else is not the answer. How much do insurance companies make anyway?

Comment on November 13, 2008 12:15 pm
13. DZ

Socalism is a economic system, not a government or communism like what I am seeing in these comments. Rather have national health care then none at all because no one cannot afford to have it. Also your hard earned money is being “stolen” anyways with taxes, so why not have some goto something good for once?

Comment on November 13, 2008 12:35 pm
14. b

@ Marine Iraq War Vet
As a U.S Soldier (read: brainwashed Iraqe Murderer) we dont expect you to say something sane,but educate yourself and you will see that a lot of your fellow soldiers cant afford healtcare once there “used’ by uncle sam and return to the real world.And you are willing to ‘fight” for your country but are not willing to help your fellow Americans who cant afford healthcare.You are a big man.

Comment on November 13, 2008 01:01 pm
15. the red scare

Yep. People think socialism is ’stealing’ their hard earned money to be given to the lazy….whelp, under CORPORATISM our money is being stolen and given to the rich, but we don’t view the rich as lazy…no no no…..from rag to riches eh? And How can the people actual think it is theft when it is payment for a service everyone has access to. Maybe we should ’steal’ the funds out of our military budget and put it to healthy use…..and if a couple marines get laid off…..so be it…welcome home boys.

Comment on November 13, 2008 01:08 pm
16. Sarah Evans

Yeah, let’s go with national health care. The first step will be to make private insurance illegal. The second step will be to pay doctors on a sliding scale based on “time in service”. Your first 5 years you make 40K up to a maximum of 120K. No exceptions. Are you doctors ready to sign on? If you depend on taxpayer funding there will be no living in gated communities and there will be no second vacation homes.

Comment on November 13, 2008 02:13 pm
17. Marine Iraq War Vet

To b. Obviously it’s not just our health care system that needs help, it’s our eduacation system too (it is apparently with all of the spelling, punctuation, and grammatical errors in your post). I agree that health care should be affordable, and people with extenuating circumstances should receive government assistance for this. I’m all for providing health care coverage for those that cannot work, but we should not be giving this as a free handout. I feel that this system, along with the welfare system need SERIOUS reform. You and I both know that there are going to be a lot of lazy opportunists who will seize the chance at free health care, just like they do now with welfare. We need to do something to fix this. Give people that are out of work health care coverage for a limited amount of time, once they’ve used up that time and don’t have a job, cut them off. Give subsidies to companies that truly cannot afford to provide health care coverage to their employees. This would be far more beneficial and less costly. I’m willing to give to my fellow Americans, but I’m not willing to let lazy ones live off of my hard work.

I am educated on my fellow military veterans and their options. Current veterans who have served in Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom have 5 years of health care coverage provided through the VA. http://www.oefoif.va.gov/
There are health benefits for other veterans too. http://www.va.gov/healtheligibility/costs/

Comment on November 13, 2008 02:23 pm
18. Justin

Sarah: Exactly who would want to endure 8+ grueling, expensive years of medical school to make $40K a year for the first 5 years? Oh wait, I guess medical school is going to be free now too. Cue the taxpayers!

Now not only will we have a clogged-up healthcare system a la Canada, but a shortage of doctors too! Brilliant.

Comment on November 13, 2008 02:27 pm
19. Nietzsche

high five, guys! yeah!

Comment on November 13, 2008 02:27 pm
20. Marie

Okay, folks, once again . . . WE ALREADY HAVE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE! No one, rich or poor, insured or uninsured, is turned away from a hospital emergency room. Pricey emergency room visits are “Cadillac care” for the poor. So, your “hard-earned money” goes to pay for the uninsured through higher premiums, deductibles, co-pays, etc., that YOU PAY. The costs of the uninsured are passed along to people who do go to jobs everyday and work their fucking asses off just so they can get employer-provided healthcare. So, YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING TO SUPPORT THESE SO CALLED “LAZY ASSES.” Trust me. We would all be better off with a national insurance plan. You would probably pay less!

And since when does having a job and going to the doctor have anything in common whatsoever? That’s one of the worst “marriages” in U.S. history. Why should people “sit on jobs” just for the healthcare their employer provides? And to do so well into their 60s or beyond? Doesn’t sound like a very energetic, productive workforce to me! And no wonder we can’t compete globally. Healthcare is killing American competitiveness. Small businesses, corporations, etc., all can no longer shoulder the costs of healtcare and remain competitive. Even the CEO of Walmart said so!

The crux of the issue here is health care should not be a commodity. It should NOT be treated the same as insuring a car or a house or buying a boat or going on a shopping spree. As the conservatives often like to say, each life is precious and a gift from god. The human body should not have a sticker price–a PREMIUM!–placed on it because it is priceless. Therefore, it should be treated by society as such. This is what other nations have figured out, yet, for some reason we can’t. The poor man’s body is as valuable as the rich man’s body. The right to health should be like the right to breathe air.

Comment on November 13, 2008 02:58 pm
21. Mike Blaxill

Personally I think the recent demonization of the dreaded “S Word” in the campaign will actually help the cause of democratic socialism in this country. I mean, hey .. If republicans despise it, how bad could it be!

Comment on November 13, 2008 03:16 pm
22. karen

gosh wish it were true. if it were that way my great-grand daughter might be alive. that way she would have been given the blood work in the ER, and given antibiotics so she could live. instead she was just given 3x the amount of motrin for a baby her age and sent home to die, and so she did.

Comment on November 13, 2008 03:26 pm
23. Winnie Pooh

I read all comments and nobody mentioned the word “solidarity”, which is the basical idea behind this kind of healt care system (and other ones as well). Solidarity means, that the ones who got better spend money to the ones who hadn´t so much luck in their life.

All this “let the market decide”-ideas will just lead to one result: The rich become richier und the poor become poorer (look the mentioned movie “Sicko” if you want an example). Don´t come on with this “if they would work harder…”-shit, million-dollar-salary jobs are not lying around the street.

And once you rush into bad times (and theres some chance), you will thank god for a solidar system which saves your health or let your children go to school and college for free. And if your situation improves, you pay again…you understand?

Comment on November 13, 2008 03:34 pm
24. Marie

Excuse me . . . but did the Iraq vet really say returning soldiers get FIVE years of health care?!!! You’ve got to be kidding me! This is a joke, right?! My god, they deserve health care FOR LIFE! My father was a WWII vet and he got health care for life along with a college education. “Support our Troops” is a shameful disgrace. Anyone who slaps those stickers on their cars should tear them off. We DON’T support our troups. (In fact, that’s probably why we have the “support our troops” propaganda in the first place–to convice people otherwise.) Anyway, our local school is having a sock drive to collect socks to send to the soldiers in Afghanistan. Well, if we can’t provide socks to our soldiers, it’s no wonder we can’t provide health care!!! I used to think the Vietnam vets were the worst treated of any returning soldiers from war. Iraq and Afghanistan have proved me wrong.

Oh, and my father became, of all things, a TEACHER! Gosh, remember the days when our teachers were our heroes? Well, contrary to “my friends” McCain, the problem with our schools is NOT our teachers. (Of course, there are some bad teachers–every profession has some bad apples.) McCain is using teachers as a scapegoat–an easy target given the number of teachers who are part of that other societal blight–UNIONS! The problems in our schools can be traced back to the homelife of our children and to society in general. For example, we have had a total breakdown of authority in our society. Fathers are absent. Permissive child-rearing took root in the 1970s and hasn’t let go. Parents are afraid of their children, of not being “liked” by them, of wanting to be “their friend” and not wanting to be an authority figure. Both parents often have to work, maybe more than one job, or more than 40-hours just to make it. There’s no one at home to augment the instruction the child receives at school. Homelife is not structured or conducive to learning, doing homework, reading, getting to bed at an appropriate hour, etc. Maybe the parents are poor and can’t afford the “extras” to give their child a chance (like after school sports, camps, clubs, etc., or something as simple as SCHOOL SUPPLIES!). Many children arrive at school without breakfast or maybe even without dinner the night before. Where I live, some kids don’t have gloves or jackets for the cold weather. Maybe they are sick and the parent can’t afford to take them to the doctor or pay for daycare or miss a day of work to stay home. I’ve heard of school nurses paying out of their own pocket to take a sick child to the doctor. The list could go on. In fact, if you were to graph the decline of the middle class, it would coincide EXACTLY with the decline of student performance, increased dropout rates, lower undergraduate completion rates, etc., in our schools. There is no mystery. What happens outside the school house is a direct reflection of what happens inside. So, the question is how exactly do we expect children to learn under these circumstances and why do we constantly blame our teachers for society’s ills?

Comment on November 13, 2008 03:55 pm
25. Marine Iraq War Vet

“24. Marie
Excuse me . . . but did the Iraq vet really say returning soldiers get FIVE years of health care?!!! You’ve got to be kidding me! This is a joke, right?! My god, they deserve health care FOR LIFE!”

Yes, 5 years of 100% covered health care for free. You then have the option of continuing use of VA health services, but I’m not completely familiar with how all of that works. http://www.va.gov/healtheligibility/costs/

Any service-connected disability IS covered for the rest of your life.

Comment on November 13, 2008 04:36 pm
26. Marie

Yea, I’ve read about “service-connected disabilities.” If it is a “service-connected MENTAL disability,” the military will often try to find ways to have the soldier discharged (i.e., bad behavior) so that they will not have to cover mental health treatment. I read an article about this deplorable practice. Yet another example of our outstanding support of our troops.

Comment on November 13, 2008 04:48 pm
27. Bart

To Sarah #16: I’m a doctor. Yes, I will work for those amounts if you make medical school free and allow me to treat whoever walks through the door the same as everyone else without dealing with insurance companies. Just so you understand, similar to other doctors, I made 35K rising to 40K for the three years of residency, then 42K rising to 55K for the three years of fellowship. This is after paying 200K in in 4 years of medical school where I could not otherwise work, 200K that is not deferred. After all of that, the kind of specialist I am starts at between 95K and 115K in practice. So we are talking about making between zero dollars and 55K for TEN years of hard work and racking up debt before making an amount that though not small compared with the median income in the united states, is not huge if you want to support a family and already owe a lot of money, sometimes also money from undergraduate. People don’t generally become doctors because of the money: they become doctors because they want to take care of people, and if they want to become rich, they go into business or into law.
More importantly, why are we not all fighting for HR 676, for single-payer health care? Why do people want to give their money to insurance companies so that some executive can live high and so the insurance company can refuse to pay for their care when they actually need some? Come on, people: let’s stand together. Let us say LOUD and CLEAR we want UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE (not universal health INSURANCE) and we want to take care of ALL of us, all together, through our government. Fine, if you want to have capatalist market all through the rest of our society, great, but let’s have a little socialism in health care. We will all be happier and safer, just as people are in many other countries. (Except, of course, for insurance company CEO’s, who will be somewhat less happy. But you can’t have everything, now can you?)

Comment on November 13, 2008 04:56 pm
28. David

I hope it all comes true for you people over the pond! Yup, I’m English.
And I’m a Health Service Baby…my father was a cowman i.e. he milked cows for a living and if we hadn’t had a National Health Service when we were kids or when my own two were born (I am a teacher) …well we would not be here or nor would they. That said I will never allow anyone to transplant any organ into my body as I believe it’s too expensive and not a sensible use of taxpayers’ money.

Beware…with every advance in medical skill and/or knowledge there is a commensurate increase in the demands for “rights” and that means more expense…..

Hey ho! What I would like to see in every country is a truly caring system….where “the rich refuse to enrich themselves at the expense of the poor and the poor cease to envy the rich”(Gandhi) to which I would add that the rich should care for the poor…and we should settle our differences without resort to arms.

I wile stop now as I could go on rambling all night.

Good Luck America…you made a good start the other Tuesday. Don’t lose the dream.

Comment on November 13, 2008 05:04 pm
29. Marie

Bravo, Dr. Bart!!! Actually, Bart should say, “If I wanted to become rich, I would have become a Doctor 90210!” Cosmetic surgeons–the practice of making people faces, breasts and vaginas look better–actually pays more than making people feel better, curing cancer, or delivering babies! This society is sick. A friend of mine is an OB-GYN, and his malpractice insurance premium is $100,000 per year. Is he rich? Of course not! This idea that doctors are all rich is not true, as Dr. Bart points out. And heaven forbid you go into GENERAL PRACTICE–where the REAL need is. We need adult care doctors and all we can find are “specialists” because that’s the only way to pay the medical school bills. This year in the U.S. we will only graduate about 250 general practitioners. So, don’t go pointing fingers and blaming the doctors. THEY ARE ON OUR SIDE! And they are just as much victims of this fucked up system as the rest of us. And doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals are some of the LOUDEST voices supporting universal health care.

Comment on November 13, 2008 05:20 pm
30. b

@ Marine Iraq War Vet
This may come as a surprise to you but this site is visited by people from all over the world.I am from Belgium, and i am happy to have this discusion with you in my language but i dont think you would get far.Of denk jij van wel?Nee,dat dacht ik al.So english it is.But you are right,the educational system has to change too.I am educated to have this conversation in your language.And i could do it in french and german.And how about the good old veteran?Prob english only with a dash of spanish perhaps?But thats a different story.
But here is the real issue,
health care in America is a buisnes and those insurance companies are out to make a profit.And making money is their first priority and prob their only priority.I advise you to watch the documentary “Sicko” (2007) Michael Moore.

Comment on November 13, 2008 05:22 pm
31. Marie

I agree. If anyone has not seen “Sicko,” they should not be participating in this discussion. See the film and then get back to us.

If my FRENCH partner’s intellectual acumen is any indication, Europe has a much better educational system than the U.S. He learned French, of course, English, and German growing up. In the U.S., we don’t start instruction in other languages until it is too late–IF it is even offered. In many schools, language instruction is often cut due to budgetary reasons. And besides, American hubris makes us think English is the only language worth knowing–even though, as has been pointed out–we’re often not very good at using it.

Comment on November 13, 2008 05:34 pm
32. Diane S.

I get sick and tired of all the people who call this socialism. You don’t have to PAY AHEAD to have the firemen put out your fire, and have the policemen come to your door when you call them; health care should be just as available to everybody.

The system the way it is now looks to me like it is the Fourth Reich’s solution to the people-lacking-green-pieces-of-paper problem.

Universal Health Care would be one giant step towards equality for everyone in this great country!

Comment on November 13, 2008 05:51 pm
33. Bruce

1. It is not the government’s responsibility to be a rising tide.
2. Universal health care can become a reality in the US with very little government involvement. You just have to be open minded enough to look at how it can be accomplished.
3. American corporations are good. They employ millions, pay better wages and benfits than you will find in Europe and lead the world in R&D. The private sector is where the true rising tide can be found.
4. Learning multiple languages is important in Europe. Not so much in a country 3 times (estimate) bigger than Europe where one primary language is spoken. By the way, that language also happens to be the worlds secondary language.
5. Michael Moore started with a conclusion (as he always does) and built his “documentary” to support that conclusion. Not hard to do and also extremely suspect. An example of this…For those who remember the 60’s, there was a rumor going around that Paul McCartney was dead. After starting with that conclusion, we found TONS of supporting evidence from album covers to playing Beatles songs backwards. The only problem was it was not true.
6.

Comment on November 13, 2008 06:24 pm
34. Marie

“Might doesn’t make right,” as the saying goes. There is value in learning other languages beyond just having a conversation with someone from another country or being able to order off a menu when travelling. CULTURE IS IN LANGUAGE. It’s why we don’t want a “one world language.” When we lose languages, we lose culture–the most important part of being a human.

I wouldn’t be so quick to defend corporations or call them “good.” It is through the exploitation of human labor that they manage to be so successful: smashing unions (which is a violation of the First Ammendment right of free speech and assembly); not paying overtime; making workers inelligible for overtime by arbitrarily giving a title of “manager;” employing people part-time so they are inelligible for benefits; not paying living wages; making workers work off the clock or–worse yet–creating a work climate whereby workers just volunteer their time for free as though a corporation were a charity; not giving rest breaks; not giving paid time off or paid sick leave; not being stewards of the environment; buying off politicians to push their own political agendas and ensure their hostile takeover of our government that is supposed to be “FOR THE PEOPLE”–NOT “FOR THE CORPORATION” (btw, for every one dollar “Big Unions” pay politicians, corporations pay $15); and the absolutely worst thing about corporations is they are considered legal “persons!” Gosh, if this is “good” then I must have missed that day in Sunday School when we learned what being “good” meant.

Comment on November 13, 2008 06:48 pm
35. David

Hi Bruce
I assume you are in the USA?
Don’t forget that it’s my Language and soon you’ll have more Spanish speakers than English speakers in the States

I’m ashamed that I cannot converse with our Belgian Friend….um! Which part of Belgium?…in his native tongue or in German or in French..tho’ I could have a stab at that as I did learn French back in the 60s but have never used it as I’m not a traveller. But that’s the English disease….even if we do travel we seem to expect everyone to speak English…seems that some insular Americans feel the same.

I rememeber the thing about McCartney but it never worried me…I was more of a Stones, Dylan, Jazz, Indian and Traditional Music fan. Still am.

Comment on November 13, 2008 07:29 pm
36. Worried

Optional is usually spelled without the additional “i” that I see in your version (”opitional”) here over the comment submission box.

Boy, this is terrible. Now we’re going to have to have a massive bail-out package for all the health insurance companies. Just so a few tens of millions of people can get healthcare. Really. What’ll you think of next? Public transportation?

Comment on November 13, 2008 07:50 pm
37. Marine Iraq War Vet

@b:
I speak English, a little mix of Spanish, Modern Standard Arabic, and the Iraqi dialect of Arabic. I agree that there should more exposure to other languages should be made available earlier than they are now in public school systems. I also feel that the entire system needs a change as it is…not just when I comes to learning other languages. But Bruce also brings up a good point, it is not as vital for Americans to learn any more than English, and possibly Spanish. Where in Europe, you need to know multiple languages because of the geography.

Comment on November 13, 2008 08:29 pm
38. Marie

AWESOME! I’m jealous of all the languages the Iraq vet speaks. Don’t lose that gift. I would love to speak more than one language. I studied Spanish in high school, but that was awhile ago! But I love the Spanish language and the Latino culture. I grew up with Mexicans. A best friend of mine is Argentinian. And I’m glad the Latinos will outnumber the whites in this country. Perhaps, for the first time, I will understand what the Native Americans felt when they were outnumbered by whites, when their native languages were destroyed by English, and when they lost their cultural dominance.

And by the way, besides Spanish, we might want to think about learning Chinese, too.

Comment on November 13, 2008 08:46 pm

[...] de la paix — pas la paix des braves, peut-être, mais au moins la paix”. Dans la foulée, le congrès américain a décidé de voter le “National Health Insurance Act,” la sécurité sociale pour tous. Cerise sur le gâteau, l’économiste ultralibéral [...]

Pingback on November 13, 2008 08:56 pm
40. b

Marie, vous écrivez politiquement sexy, allez-vous me marier?Lol.I am from Antwerp,we speak dutch and french,we have the best food in the world and we are just a drive away from Paris the city of love.Healtcare is very low cost and we dont go to war with every country we dont like.Schools and university are public,no need to pay hughe amounts of money for that.We work 35 hours a week and live very well,life it self has a very high value for us.Sometimes i hear storys about people in the u.s. who work 60 hours a week and still dont have enough money for all the bills.That makes me kind of sad.Here life is much easier i think.I think your whole government needs a change and a good review of your laws.Like your gun control,its soooo bad.Cmon what do you need guns for in the citys?And with so much guns do you really find it amazing that there are so much shooting at high-schools and stuff?I really hope Obama will do a good job rebuilding the country cause thats what needs to be done.The public opinion in europe about the u.s. is getting really bad,you take us with you in your financial crisis.Bush says he thinks everybody should be able to buy a house even if they have bad credit or no credit.Great,thats your president,your leader.No responsible leader would say anything like that.No responsible leader would lie to his people to go to war with a country.WE KNOW THEY HAVE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.I mean O MY GOD!Are you serious?Do you really let him get away with that?America we in Europe still love you,but please change and take your role as world leader serious.Cause all dessicions made by the u.s. government -good or bad- are felt trougout the world.And i believe in karma.If you do good you will receive good.Time for a beer.lol.

Comment on November 13, 2008 09:42 pm
41. Stalin

Hey, Bruce, you are a disgrace to humanity! The largest country in the world is Mother Russia, not the USA, and keep in mind (if you have one) that ignorance has never been something to be proud of. Spanish and Chinese are more widespread and have more speakers than English. I am fluent in five languages, not counting my native one, so that would make six of them. And that helps me understand more about the world and helps me realize there’s more sides to the truth and that nobody posesses the ultimate truth - not the Yanks, nor the Russki, nor the Jerries. Try and see the world from more perspectives than your couch at home. Locking yourself away from other cultures will just turn you into a complete moron. Good luck scratching your testicles in front of the TV watching Oprah for the rest of your life! By the time you turn 40, you’ll notice that English has become a minority language in the USA…

And, now that I’ve mentioned Mother Russia, you’d be delighted to know that they have a state run health system and once in this lifetime I happened to run into it. As I was visiting the Russian Federation, I got sick one day and went to a Russian hospital, in a small town in the Caucasus, a town where an average pay does not exceed 200 USD per month. Although I was a foreigner, they sent not one, but two doctors to see what was wrong with me, they gave me a full check-up and they stood by my side until they made sure I was well. All they asked for, at the end of it, was my name, so they could write it down in a register. Not for my insurance, social security, credit card number or even cash - nothing. They didn’t even need to see my passport, when I offered it to them. As compared to what happened to a friend of mine, visiting the USA, who also got sick and went to a hospital. She was taken to the ER, was only given a prescription and sent home, and then was billed for several thousand dollars, because her travel insurance wasn’t fully comprehensive. So there you have it - socialized healthcare versus capitalist profit driven lack of care. If I am ever to be sick again, I’d rather be in that little town you’ve never heard about - Beslan, Northern Ossetia - where doctors care for their patients regardless of nationality, income or race, and nowhere near the United States… Please, go on, call me a commy…

Comment on November 13, 2008 09:54 pm
42. Natalie

I’m crying tears of happiness reading this. I wish it was true! Thank you, guys.

Comment on November 13, 2008 10:42 pm
43. Joan

What a fun and uplifting idea. We need more. Surprised that some of those commenting don’t seem to realize that our current for-profit insurance system rations care more than any government entity. Big pharm developes drugs for diseases we didn’t know. We are way behind other countries in infant mortality, longevity of our citizens. U.S. businesses can’t compete internationally because our product costs reflect benefits that are funded through government in other countries. Yes, to Single Payer Health Care–sooner the better. Medicare only took a year to put into place after 1965 passage. It should’ve been extended to everyone then.

Comment on November 14, 2008 12:42 am

I heart socialism.

Comment on November 14, 2008 12:57 am
45. Heather

Dear Mr. Obama, PLEASE GET “MARIE” IN YOUR ADMINISTRATION. I am a teacher and seeing “Marie” taking the time to educate who knows how many people AND engage in a real dialogue is inspiring.

Comment on November 14, 2008 02:22 am
46. Gianfranco

Note: Argentinians are mostly white… Their land wasn’t inhabited enough to have much mixing… Argentina and Chile are highly different from Mexico… Even Peru, Paraguay, Uruguay, etc. Are very different… Up to “Heroes: Destiny” a missconception of what hispanic America and lusitanic America, or, better said, Iberic America is has been propagated throughout the media. Iberic America has a lot of variety that is usually overshadowed and overseen jumbling it all together into the same stereotype of what Mexico is like. So “Marie” surprises me for her claims of eye-openness on that matter followed by confusion.

Comment on November 14, 2008 04:16 am
47. Mabus

Unfortunately, health care is not like water. Water can be cheap because there is so much of it (though the amount is not unlimited, and yes, we’re starting to feel the strain).

Advanced health care intrinsically requires intensive training and high-tech equipment. It is impossible for it to be cheap; it is impossible to treat such an expensive service as anything other than a commodity and expect there to be enough to go around. Would that it were otherwise….but it isn’t.

Comment on November 14, 2008 04:17 am
48. Samuel

For those of you who have commented criticizing this “socialist” proposition and told horror stories about how the quality and access to care will plummet and costs will soar…I’m sorry, but it just sounds like you’re describing our system the way it is now.

Canada, Britain, France, Germany, Japan–the entire industrialized world, they do not have ideal systems by any means, but they do provide healthcare to virtually all their citizens while spending less per capita than we do, and they have, on average, better quality of health indicators and public satisfaction with their system than we do. Hard to knock that.

Every healthcare system has problems, of course. But I think it’s about time we chose for those problems not to include massive under-insurance coupled with ridiculous profits for insurance and drug companies.

P.S. I absolutely agree this needs to be couple with a reform to the financing of education in this country, particularly medical school, the high cost of which, as has been noted, contributes to the inflation of doctors’ salaries to compensate.

Comment on November 14, 2008 06:19 am

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Pingback on November 14, 2008 07:26 am

[...] headlines like “Iraq War Ends”, “Troops to Return Immediately“, “National Health Insurance Act Passes“, “Nation Sets Its Sights on Building Sane Economy”, “Public Relations [...]

Pingback on November 14, 2008 11:18 am
51. DrFeelGood

To the idiot that wants to model the “new system” on the VA system: You obviously have no experience with the VA system. I regularly saw necessary patient care delayed because it was after 3:00pm, and quiting time for the lazy government employees.

The real question is why we support a seperate hospital system for vets at all. They should have a free ride at any hospital of their choosing, and we should shut down the VA trough.

And I’ve got news for you, the best and brightest are not going to do what it takes to become a doctor, if the end result is a low paying government job. Some would, but most won’t. So you end up with lower quality generalists and PA’s. Good thing med mal will be illegal, it would have to be.

If I treated my patients the way CMS (Medicare/Medicaid) treats me, I’d be stabbed in the chest with a scapel in one day. If my practice went to 100% CMS, I’d take a job mowing lawns, Or maybe I’d run for office, since the only ones getting fed in this brave new world are the pigs at the public’s trough.

Comment on November 14, 2008 01:45 pm
52. DrFeelGood

Good thing we can’t afford any of this, anyway. Ready for a
“change”? Tax hikes for everyone, and drastic federal spending cuts are what’s coming. It may already be too late for the US to avoid default. Taking on more debt simply won’t happen. No entity is willing to buy our debt anymore. Music stopped, game over.

Comment on November 14, 2008 01:52 pm
53. Z

Marie,
You are right. Might doesn’t make right. But that is exactly the system that any statist government employes. Socialism, or its modern deviant, the “mixed-economy”, sacrifices the rights of a few to the “rights” of the many. (Here’s a hint on the nature of rights: it’s impossible for someone’s right to interfere with that of anyone else.)

You say you wouldn’t be so quick to defend corporations, because they smash unions and “exploit” workers. However, where is the actual force used against employees? Unlike the government, corporations are not allowed to use force when dealing with people. There is no inherent right to a job. A company does not exist to provide jobs. The great thing about this country is that one is capable of quitting any job he or she doesn’t like, and either changing jobs or starting his or her own company. If you don’t think you’re being paid fairly; if you think you’re generating your company more capital than it’s compensating you for, quit your job and find someone who thinks you’re worth the money. If there’s no one out there, start your own company.

A contractual agreement exists between the employee and the employer. The government should have no bearing on this. If the employer or employee violates the rights of the other, then, and only then, should the government intervene.

Governments do not exist to provide the public with anything. They exist to protect the right of its citizens.

Comment on November 14, 2008 02:13 pm
54. FB and class at Georgetown

I love the “Yes Men” and use your examples when I teach “Nonviolence in Theory and Practice.”

My class says that they would like you to come talk to an IR class!

Thanks for a lovely vision of the future!

Comment on November 14, 2008 03:45 pm
55. Mason

This is a wonderful idea! The government has been screwing up Medicare for 40 years. Now lets give them control over every aspect of health care system, because they are sure to manage that better.

Comment on November 14, 2008 08:19 pm
56. Bryan

As we know, when the government runs something it is the model of efficiency. Government Healthcare, I can’t see anything bad happening with this. Besides, it is the governments job to take care of us right?

Comment on November 14, 2008 08:24 pm

Many of the comments seem to confuse HR 676 with socialized medicine which it is not. “Socialized Medicine” is when all the doctors work for the government and don’t pay tuition to medical school like Britain, Cuba, or our own VA system.

However HR 676 is Single-Payer which means doctors and hospitals remain private enterprises, but with a single billing entity. By the way, this is the kind of system that 60% of doctors support because they are tired of insurance companies telling them what kind of medicine they are allowed to practice.

If you don’t understand what a term means, perhaps you shouldn’t throw it around so generously.

Comment on November 14, 2008 08:55 pm
58. ba nff

is this for real?

Comment on November 14, 2008 09:14 pm
59. Barto

Currently, the town of Santa Barbara is on fire. Thousands of firefighters and their equipment have descended upon us, and, if the weather holds, they will win the day soon. There have been losses, and incredible saves. I have yet to see a single person whose house was threatened waving their “fire insurance vouchers” at the firefighters as the threat approaches to get the firefighters to work on their particular home. Why is that? Because everybody pays for the firefighters, and the care they provide is fully pre-paid. Those who are struck with calamity are covered, automatically, comprehensively, no denial for any reason. Not a single person of any political bent has complained about this (or at least it must be an extremely small minority). And yet, listen to them scream when health care access is designed the exact same way. Thank your lucky stars for single-payer health care financing!

Comment on November 14, 2008 11:01 pm

5 quick points for the haters:

1. We would all pay less by pooling our money into one large “single payer” plan…that’s common sense.
2. So called “Lazy Asses” are essentially a myth. Extremely low paying jobs without benefits are a reality.
3. Current Social Welfare expenditures represent less than 3% of the annual budget….the military takes more than 50%. Would you rather spend money to kill or to heal?
4. So many creative and entrepreneurial people’s aspirations are dashed because they are forced to take on rote and meaningless jobs in order to have health insurance for their families.
5. Private insurance companies earn 15-20% profit off of plans. That enormous percent of health costs would be completely eliminated in a non-profit system.

Health care and Pharmaceuticals are very clearly areas where profit should not play any role in decision making.

Comment on November 14, 2008 11:12 pm
61. amy

None of you scaredy-cats screaming about “socialism” are actually bothering to learn what “single payer” means. Nobody is saying we’d all have to go to some government hospital. It’s “SINGLE PAYER and INDEPENDENT PROVIDER” The independent, licensed doctors we already have. Our premiums would go from $1000/month to $250. Don’t hate it so much now, do ya? No denials for profit. No “pre-existing conditions” clauses. Business would not have to cover health insurance, that would do more for Main Street than the Bailout Fraud of 2008.

Comment on November 14, 2008 11:45 pm
62. Trinity

This is amazing! You guys went through it all!
To all of you who are responding to this seriously…chill the eff out.

Comment on November 15, 2008 12:14 am
63. James

I’m just waiting for the day when Americans realise that socialism doesn’t mean Communism and doesn’t mean you’re ‘giving your money to lazy people’.

Comment on November 15, 2008 11:20 am

I enjoyed your spoof “edition” of the NYT.

But your healthcare reportage was disappointing.

You needed to have at least one of your healthcare reporters possess expert nursing credentials, and the stories all must include reportage about professional nursing. (Nursing accounts for over 95% of all reimbursed healthcare services in the US and is provided by the near three million registered nurses. Whether or not patients are cared for by nurses who hold a minimum of a baccalaureate nursing education makes significant differences in whether they suffer increased morbidity [complications and delayed healing/recovery] and whether they die.)

As I offer with the “other” NYT reporters, I’ll do here: please call on me to serve as a nursing resource for healthcare reportage.

I write about health policy, professional nursing and patient advocacy at the Home of the Brave and at the dormant blog, Universal Health.

Comment on November 15, 2008 03:46 pm
65. Scott

Hey,
How will the top 5% be paying more taxes when they no longer can make more than 15X the minimum wage? Oh now it’s not the top 5 percent but the top 90% since most small business, and the middle class make less than $250K, or was it $200K or was it $150K? I forget

Comment on November 15, 2008 07:51 pm
66. Char

You are FREAKING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!
This whole charade is SOCIALISM ON CRACK!!!
The (s)elected criminals in Washington, District of Criminals are going to bleed you out of every last nickel you have until they have so much of YOUR MONEY they will squeak when they walk…and you and I will not be able to do ONE thing about it, except keep our noses to the grindstone…not have Rush or Hannity to listen to to keep us “sane” and won’t be able to go ‘postal’ because we will have no guns…. why would you want to live in a nation like what Obamanoid is going to create for us?????? ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comment on November 16, 2008 06:37 pm
67. MD

National Health Care, Yeah, bring it!
As a practicing physician for 32 years it’s about time.
Health care is a right not a privilege. It’s been corrupted
by special interests who’s goal is the $ and not the care of
patients.

Comment on November 16, 2008 11:49 pm
68. MD

67
You think the corporate world is going to take care of you? If you have no insurance after your unexpected trauma or heart attack and the bill is 6 figures you’ll see how fast your turned to a collection agency and the grindstone. I’ve witnessed many patients lives ruined by these financial burdens after having recovered from their illness.

Comment on November 17, 2008 12:10 am
69. Alex

this sliding scale of pay for doctors (and possibly for nurses) will send them to other parts of the world where they can actually make a living. your average cost of a nursing degree is about 80,000 dollars. so you want someone right out of school to make LESS than 40K, live, and pay off their student debt? (i’m talking about people now that are just getting out of school) if university turns up free than so be it, but to pay someone so skilled/trained, such low salary is an insult.

Comment on November 17, 2008 12:22 am
70. MD

70
Sorry, your wrong. The sooner we get the salary out of the reason you go into health care the better. It will eliminate the folks that are doing it for the money. Trust me, there are very highly qualified people who will do it because it’s their calling and they’re the ones you want taking care of you and your family. Having gone through 11 years of postgraduate training myself, I could care less about the financial rewards. Your driven by the privilege to help people and make a difference in their lives and that reward transcends anything else at the end of the day.

Comment on November 17, 2008 12:35 am
71. MD

52 Yeah, you’ve pointed out your thoughts on the VA and government health care. But what are your thoughts on the private sector and the uninsured? We need an objective view from everybody to help develop a better system and that view has to be honest. I’ve practiced in both arenas for 32 years and would love to hear thoughtful, honest suggestions.

Comment on November 17, 2008 01:45 am
72. Just Me

I honeslty loved the idea. Some of these comments just don’t sit right with me though. I’m a single mom, I’m studing at a local college, and I work full time. Three days a week she goes to daycare for 13 hours a day. I have no one to help with my bills, I stopped going to the doctor because it came down to the question of if I heat my home, have fresh fruits and veggies for my daughter or do I get that check up. I haven’t picked that check up for a long time. I KNOW how dangerous that can be, yet if I could get a little bit of help it might not happen.

I found this to be a dream. Should it happen I would be in to see my doc quicker than you could blink. Until then it will wait until I graduate and pay back my student loans.

Since I know it’s going tohappen I would like to address my marital staus. Yes I gave birth out of wedlock. I choose that over killing my unborn baby. I have fought tooth and nail to give her what she needs. I’m still hoping that the goverment will step in and maybe fight for her and force him to pay all that back child support that apperently isn’t nessary.
I stink at spelling. Everyone does, thats why spell check was created. I’m to tired to use it, so you get to guess.

Comment on November 17, 2008 01:58 am
73. liam

Its not Socialism if you give the money in an underhanded way to Corporations….it’s called Theft.

I choose Socialism in that case…….

Comment on November 17, 2008 02:06 am
74. liam

Oh, and Ayn Rand can go F#$k herself too……I think her and her ilk poisioned the sense out of the US a while back. I didn’t see her in a military hospital as a nurse in WWI or WWII, guess she was looking after herself. Maybe we all should have stayed home in ‘41 and we would now be speaking German. Sometimes its a good idea to all work together…..

Comment on November 17, 2008 02:15 am
75. MD

75
Yeah, I think it all comes down to selfishness and greed. I’m all for free enterprise, but there are all always some folks who are motivated to take advantage of this system and don’t care about harming others. Therefore government regulation is imperative. Of course, the government is not immune from these vices, but in a democracy we can vote the bums out.

Comment on November 17, 2008 02:35 am
76. Gianfranco

Whatever country gets so good on health gets too good, and every country that does not gets there, gets envious enough, that sums it up… (If ya misunderstand; I meant that Heroes:Destiny is the newest example of US media misunderstanding what is true about Iberic America)

Comment on November 17, 2008 09:19 am
77. Bridget

Karen, I am so sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine being in a position like that. What ever system it is, I hope some day we can all have access to healthcare that will not allow something like that to happen.

Comment on November 17, 2008 01:54 pm
78. Michael

Couple of things.

1. Healthcare and education are not socialism, they are national assets or “resources” if you mostly think in barrels. Health care and similar benefits were introduced to enlarge the pool of able recruits for the people’s armies. Large standing armies are the exception today, competition has shifted to the economic arena. The US is impaired by deficiencies in health care and education and will collapse in its present form if nothing is done about it.

2. Canada is a very bad (I would argue: broken) model. There are much smarter options (Switzerland, many other European countries). I know exactly what I am talking about because I worked in surgery (Germany) and am treated (sometimes) for a chronic condition here in Canada. The system here really sucks.

3. The Health care problem is universal. We live too long and Medicine has made too many conditions treatable. I would argue that there is MASSIVE room to improve efficiency and bring down costs by eliminating administrative layers and possibly capping law suits to a reasonable sum. Technical progress + advanced information management should allow further cost reductions.

4. I don’t buy the cost argument. The money for the bankster bail out and the Iraq war would have paid for decades of health care. Lets all remember that Bush inherited oodles of money - all gone.

5. “Cost” is often an accounting artifact. Health care is an eminently important industry and should be seen as such. It provides cash for important technological progress. People working in health care do pay taxes.

6. Transitions should never be done gung ho. The Chinese experimented with capitalism in special economic zones. Health care experiments need to be tested analyzed and slowly phased in.

7. Economy. Al the right wing rhetoric misses a crucial point: You can’t have a flourishing economy with the majority of the people financially busted. Henry Ford knew that but of course he actually produced something other than BS.

8. The US cannot compete with China through lowering salaries. You need to look up rather than down. I give you a hint: Apple Inc.

9. A final word on “Socialism”. The US State has a monopoly to pass laws and to print money. Think about what that might be and do.

Comment on November 17, 2008 04:55 pm
79. Sherr Tice

I think this could be a really good thing. My cousin is 24 years old, and has thyroid cancer. She just had a baby and has two older kids. Her husband works at RAC, but because of all the over time he works, they do not qualify for most programs to aide low income cancer patients. She does have insurance, but because she does not have “cancer insurance” they will not cover the $100,000 operation she needs to save her life. The hospital offered a payment plan (three previous hospitals refused even that) but they require $10,000 up front. I am so sick of private insurance. Every time I go to the doctor, the insurance doesn’t pay all that I expected them to pay. Most insurance plan do not cover Maternity care, the most common medical expence for women my age. I can’t afford my deductible if I ever do get REALLY sick, but I can’t afford the premiums If I lower my deductable. It is time for change! The people who need insurance the most are also the one who can least afford it. I say hooray to the government for finally doing something that will have far reaching positive effects on the common man.

Comment on November 17, 2008 05:52 pm
80. DrFeelGood

Sherr, sorry to hear about your friend. But the government is not going to do much “that will have far reaching positive effects on the common man.” Unless you hope that we will finally be forced to live within our means.

Sorry to break it to you, but you live in a bankrupt country. We have lived off a global credit card, and we will shortly be unable to pay enough to cover the interest, let alone the balance. And the countries that have been financing our spending spree have decided enough is enough. Look at the trend of foreign debt, and see for yourself.

MD: Must have been a slow night in the ER. Part of my honest solution would include a way to keep highly paid and highly skilled staff as busy as possible!! My point was that the VA costs much more, for much less. What we need to do is figure out how to do much more, with much less. But no one is ready yet to make the difficult decisions that must be made. The time, unfortunately, is coming soon. And it’s not the “change” that the sheep have in mind.

Comment on November 17, 2008 09:09 pm
81. Jul

Our Healthcare System definitely needs a facelift.I have been with out healthcare on and off for years and it’s no picnic.Yes it is a right but lets throw the lobbyists out and really create an FDA that doesn’t belong to the Pharmaceutical Companies that would be a great start.
Socialism isn’t good for anyone or any Country if it was we would have seen it work some where by now. I voted for Obama but I truly don’t trust any of them the Shadow Government is what runs everything throughout the world.We could solve so many of the issues today if the Bilderberg group didn’t exist. Go ahead do your own research and figure out who is really making all the decisions.They (Politicians,and Elitists) consider us Sheeple and not worth fixing the United States or the World for that matter. Watch out everyone the New World Order is coming and we are letting it happen.

Comment on November 17, 2008 09:57 pm
82. IAmFree

You socialists go ahead and indulge your little fantasies. You’ll find the reality isn’t nearly as rosy. You think having the Presidency means you have the power? Think again, you’ll be ground up in the Obamanation’s meat grinder just like you think we “rich”, “greedy” capitalists will. Except we won’t. You’ll starve and die in the streets from simple things like flu and diarrhea, or from spending years on a waiting list for life-saving treatments - that’s the “national health care plan” you have waiting for you. We free men will just watch you die and laugh at your stupidity, because we know how to keep our rightful property and build a new, decent world with it once you’re gone. Come and take it from us? This isn’t Europe, trying will just speed up the process. There’s no arguing with you now, so, we just won’t.

Comment on November 18, 2008 10:05 am
83. Ms Canada

Since Canada is always being held up (for good and bad) as the example of how national health care programs work, let me give you the straight goods — as both a consumer of medical services AKA patient, and as a medical journalist. When I or a family member get sick, we go to a doctor. We get to choose our doctor. We don’t have to pay for the visit. We may have to pay for some additional services — e.g., sick notes to our employer. In some of the largest cities, it can be difficult to get on a family doctor’s list but that doesn’t mean you don’t get seen, it just means that you’re not guaranteed follow-up by one doctor on every visit. And some non-medical services — e.g., occupational therapy, psychology — are not completely covered. In Ontario (where I am), drugs are not covered for people aged 18-65 but we’re working on it and (big plus here!) the discussion is not about the bogeyman of socialism; it’s about how to afford the bucks government will have to pony up to extend the program. In some isolated or rural areas, it can be difficult to get a doctor to stay in the region without either special incentives or a quid pro quo in which the region pays for med school. But nothing in the system depends on your financial status as a patient. Whether I earned 25k or 300k, I would have access to the same doctors, hospitals, tests, programs, etc.

Comment on November 18, 2008 11:52 am
84. vancouverman

Thanks for standing up for Canada, Ms. Canada. I am so sick and tired of ignorant Americans bad-mouthing my country and it’s health system. We have an excellent, fair, equal, efficient health care system but they’re too closed-minded to pull themselves out of the Dark Ages and get with the rest of the civilized world. And this from a country where the by-words were supposed to be “excellent, fair, equal and efficient”. I could have moved south years ago, and easily. I am so happy that I was never seduced by lure of supposed big bucks.

Comment on November 18, 2008 04:55 pm
85. Tom

I have married friends who are both sick.1 with liver disease and 1 with skin cancer.Anthem Blue Cross has raised their insurance premium to $2300 a month..This year they won’t make $45000.. Their house is up for sale and they barely can pay for their basic needs.Their choice is to give up their insurance or lose everything they worked their whole life for or just die..Our for profit healthcare insurance system is inhumane,unjust and an American travesty..Every member of government should be ashamed for allowing this to happen in the richest country in the world,and the only industrialized country on the planet without Universal healthcare..No Canadian would ever want to go to the screwed up system we Americans are forced to live with..

Comment on November 18, 2008 05:50 pm
86. Truly Free

To: I AM FREE,You Are Scary.It’s your belief that you’ll be left to reap the benefits of population reduction.Be careful what you wish for whats left may not be what you expect.Those of us who wish ill will to others especially people who have less than us will not prosper,in fact your negative thoughts will come back to haunt you in ways you never dreamed.Maybe America is an illusion and we have been living in a fish bowl for many decades,none the less we still need to look to each other and help each other.One person at a time whether it’s family or a neighbor don’t turn your back it may be your turn one day that needs to reach out,and pray someone is there to help you.
You may know how to hold on to your property but you have obviously lost your humanity.
Those of us who care and have compassion are truly free.Those who are bound by hateful destructive thoughts are never free.

God Bless us all we’re going to need it!!

Comment on November 18, 2008 05:57 pm
87. healthy in canada

First I’d like to say that this “mock” version of the NY Times is fantastic and really shows what can be possible.

Glad to hear from other posters like Ms Canada and vancouverman, because I’ve had enough about some Americans labelling Canada as “socialist” and thinking that all our freedoms, etc. are taken away.

In fact, it couldn’t be further from the truth. I am FREE to choose my doctor, drop into a clinic wherever and whenever I like, go to the hospital if necessary, etc. We even have a health line that we can call, for free, to speak with a registered nurse to see if they recommend that we seek medical attention. I happily pay taxes to ensure that everyone in this country has this level of care, because I know that they are taking care of me and my family as well.

That’s what builds solidary among citizens, knowing that we’re taking care of each other, instead of the “every person for themself” mentality.

Comment on November 18, 2008 07:08 pm
88. Jul

AMEN! Healthy in Canada. I’m from Buffalo,NY I grew up 30 Minutes from Canada and spent a lot of time there and around Canadians and I never thought the people or the government were Socialists.
Capitalism doesn’t mean what IAmfree says it does it’s his sick version of what his own Elitist views are.Unfortunately many people like him and our own governments will not lose any sleep over his Scenario of death in the streets of the average middle class and poor people in the world.The less there are of us the easier it will be to rule over the masses which they don’t want to be so massive.Everyone should GOOGLE New World Order and see what comes up,a lot of it is a bunch of crack pots out there so you have to sift through it.My research has scared the shit out of me and I’ve only been looking for a couple of weeks.Happy hunting and good luck.

Comment on November 18, 2008 09:10 pm
89. Danielle

Has socialism every worked for the better? The people that have commented about how great their socialist society is… How is everything else looking? (Germany this year has a 12% unemployment rate.) Plus, How many people die while waiting just to see a doctor… Free never really means free!!! Or the free college education… In most countries that support free college it takes 6 years just to achieve your masters degree. 6 years to receive a dumbed down degree… I DON’T THINK I WANT THAT!!! Insentive drives action… Capitalism is an insentive based system that works. If anybody wants to complain about how America works then go move to another country.

Comment on November 18, 2008 10:09 pm
90. IAmFree

“To: I AM FREE,You Are Scary”

You say that, but do you really understand just how scared you should be? You see, you need me, but I don’t need you. Calling me inhuman might help you sleep at night, it might temporarily push down the fear that is even now giving you knots in your stomach and a lump in your throat, but it will not let you obtain food and shelter and medicine once you have cut off your only means of doing so. You think your government will provide them? Where do you think they get it all from?

Your socialism has pushed you to a state where you are entirely dependent on people like me. Read all the sob stories above, it’s plain as day. What you don’t realize is that you’ve given us all the power. We produce what you need, and you try to simply take it. At some point, why would any sane person keep producing for you? All we have to do is stop, and you starve.

Go be “truly free” with your unconditional compassion, see how far it gets you. You think it’s your labor that is the basis of production? For our wealth and our well-being? Think again, it’s our minds and our capital and our markets that enable your labor to produce anything at all. You want to take those away? You want to saw off the limb you have crawled out on? Fine, the tree needs pruning. Keep pushing, and you won’t have to take our minds and our capital and our markets away, we’ll take them away from you. And there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it but starve.

“we still need to look to each other and help each other.”

Then *ask*. That’s what humans do when they need something they have not earned. Demand, and you will not receive. I wish you no ill will. I simply don’t *care* about you, nor for anyone who pursues the evil written on these pages. You are on your own. That’s what you should find truly scary. You have no idea what you are playing with. The blessings of your god will not help you.

You’ve let us know in no uncertain terms that argument, persuasion, and accommodation are no longer viable means to protect what is rightfully ours. So no more argument. It’s time to decide. What will it be?

Comment on November 18, 2008 11:19 pm
91. MD

90/91
The free market system only corrupts health care.

If you have a chance to see it from the inside you’d see something very different from what you think. As an insider your constantly bombarded by your “numbers”. What that means is how many operations have you done? That’s the important thing, that’s what brings in the $ for the institutions, so it promotes unnecessary operations by physicians. That’s how MD’s and institutions keep score, the numbers. It makes $ and prestige for an institution. So folks are subjected to unnecessary procedures and it harms them and costs a lot of money and most importantly results in increased morbidity and mortality. These folks will hide the quality issues any way they can.

The mentality is hard to describe, but basically your health care providers are thinking about putting you through a procedure the minute you arrive in their grips if you can pay.

It’s the dark secret of American health care and physician organizations and hospitals will do anything to keep doing it because of the money.

However, there are many honest MD’s out there and many procedures are very necessary. Let the buyer beware and get big business out of health care.

Comment on November 19, 2008 03:49 am
92. MD

81 I think your wrong. I and many others are ready to make the change. This system is harmful to the population as a whole and driven by big business, that could care less about pt. care unless they’re worried about being sued. I’m an interventional cardiologist not an ER doc. The Canadian system is not ideal, but much better then what we have if you look at the whole population.

Comment on November 19, 2008 04:09 am
93. Lil

I Am Free, you sure have a lot of time on your hands to come here and antagonize people. Is this your hobby or are you board between classes?

Comment on November 19, 2008 02:48 pm
94. Truly Free

To; IAmFree,

I’m not a Socialist I believe in Capitalism,but the Government and Big Business is CORRUPT and in bed together for generations.I know what you are saying I get where your coming from.I don’t need you or your money I have always paid my own way and never asked for handouts like most hard working Americans.I’m not looking to saw off any limbs or take the markets away,I would like to see free markets and trade that aren’t controlled by corrupt evil people who are bent on World domination.I don’t believe in taking from the rich and giving to the poor,it’s the Elitists that have been taking from the wealthy,Middle class and the poor for centuries.People need to wake up and see whats happening and stop fighting with each other.

Obama isn’t a Socialist either he’s like you a Puppet of a much more sinister Government that will sacrifice him and you as well as the rest of us for world power.You have dillusions of Grandier if you think you are coming out of this unscathed.
Socialistic ideas will be the demise of the United States.Everyone is following Obama blindly and thats very dangerous we need to watch him very closely and question everything, thats how we got into this mess we elect our leaders and think they are looking after our best interest when the opposite is the truth.
Unfortunately it didn’t matter who we elected the Agenda is the same in the end and it has nothing to do with getting the United States back to its Glory Days (An ILLUSION).We’re all in for a bumpy ride and it ain’t gonna end anytime soon.

Comment on November 19, 2008 05:27 pm
95. Jessica

Maybe people should place a higher priority on their health so they can pay for healthcare? Unlike Obama, I believe that healthcare is not a right, but a responsibility. Put down the burger and the 6-pack (I’m lookin at you, Joe), go for a run, and make sure you always have insurance.

If that means making a sacrifice to make sure you’re covered, you better. Less eating out, fewer Starbucks trips, not living in that big house you really can’t afford. It’s abysmal to see how many working Americans who aren’t anywhere near the poverty level don’t have healthcare insurance just because they view it as something they can’t afford. Balance your budget again, and MAKE it WORK.

I agree healthcare must be reformed and made more affordable, especially for our most vulnerable citizens, but the only way to continue to get better care AND lower prices is to keep healthcare competitive. I want to be able to choose my own doctor, my own hospital, and pay a fair price for it. Health is wealth, and like it or not, wealth can buy health as well. Start taking care of your body. You only get one!

Comment on November 20, 2008 06:02 pm
96. Mona

Marine Iraq War Vet,

You speak Arabic? and Iraqi dialect? wow, that’s great, did you learn it to communicate with the Iraqi people when you kick their doors and search their houses and interrogate them? For your information, I am Iraqi, living in the united states, had breast cancer 6 years ago, the Iraqi government paid for my chemotherapy, my mastectomy costs only about 150 dollars which I had in a private hospital. After I came to the States, found a job, the insurance company did not cover my cancer for a whole year, as it is a pre-existing condition, later I was covered but must pay thousands of dollars if I needed extra checkups. And now, after losing my job ( 2 months ago) in the recession I am paying 400 dollars a month from my own pocket (Cobra), when I searched for a cheaper insurance I was told I won’t be covered because of my cancer…I told them I am a 6 years survivor, they said I need to be a 10 years survivor. I was a good worker, worked overtime (no pay), worked during weekends (no pay), so please don’t tell me I am taking your hard earned money, I feel helpless and scared, I lived in Iraq all my life and was constantly scared, wars, revolutions, the secret police, saying or doing something wrong, then I came to the United States in March 2003, and by God, I am still scared, but a different kind of fear, losing a job without warning, no compensation, losing my health insurance, etc… Don’t tell me a little of S will destroy this great country, it will humanize it. Forgive me if I made spelling or grammatical mistakes, you see, Arabic is my mother language. I would appreciate it if you find me a job, I need health insurance.

Comment on November 20, 2008 10:22 pm
97. Mona

Oh, I forgot something, my nephew is a doctor in the United State and he tells me that the best thing to be here is a homeless bum, then you can have a kidney or liver transplant for free, I think we are paying for this guy’s operation from our hard earned money.

Comment on November 20, 2008 10:25 pm
98. Mona

Danielle,

How did you come up with the 6 years for a masters degree? It takes 18 months to 2 years all over the world. check your information.

Comment on November 20, 2008 10:29 pm

Conyers 676 is not Socialized Medicine! It is actually Single-Payer (like Medicare, but better and for everyone). If you had actually read it and know what you were writing about, you would know that.

Two very different systems; wake up.

Comment on November 21, 2008 02:19 am
100. Barto

For those of you who are averse to socialism, I invite you to read post 60. Now I will explain why the market (private health insurers) fails for financing health care, just as it fails for financing wildfire protection (and thus is not used to finance wildfire protection, or police protection, or military defense, or air quality, or wilderness protection, or…, ok, you get the picture). Now you neoliberals, pay attention. This is especially for you.
Imagine you are a seller of health insurance. You have the best intentions - to provide people with access to the wonderful medical care providers that exist in our country. You are in competition with many other such sellers, so in order to compete you of course must spend money on marketing yourself to your clients. The product you are selling also has a bothersome attribute in that, the more your clients use your product, the less money you make! What to do, what to do…
Well, for starters, let’s try and get the clients to use it a little less often. Copays and deductibles are ingenious little inventions that serve this purpose well. If somebody insists on using our product in a really big way (as in lots of “medical losses”) maybe we can review their policy (if they are an individual subscriber) and rescind it. If its a group policy we can just put the squeeze on the group and raise premiums. In any case, we can hopefully avoid losing any money. On the other end of the billing cycle we can deny payment to both the providers and our clients to the best of our ability.
In the end, about 50% of the money our clients pay for our delivery of health care will not be destined to actual health care, but to administration costs (including profits and advertising) and billing costs on the provider’s end. This doesn’t even count what comes directly out of the clients’ pockets.
So, our best intentions, in the end, are shattered. Doing a little research, we realize that most countries don’t even attempt to handle health care financing this way. Hmmmm, how do they do it?

Comment on November 21, 2008 02:47 am
101. DrFeelGood

MD,
I’m not saying that you, and many others, myself included, are not ready to make a change. I’m saying that the money does not exist, and may never exist again in this country, to make the changes the dreamers have in mind. The money has already been spent, and then some. The real change is going to be Americans getting accustomed to the words “no, we can’t afford it”,”no, you can’t have it”, and most important of all, “doing more at this point is a waste of our limited resources.”
I’m not surprised you are ready for a change. You seem quite noble, but your subspecialty is infested by some of the most self serving vipers I have ever seen, in any business (and arguably the hardest workers). But before you divorce yourself from the private sector, ask yourself who developed the flouro, DSA, catheters, stents and drugs you use, and why? You may be fine making 70% less, but not them. Canada’s system may be great, and I sure love Vancouver, but if I had to rely on what Canadian medicine has brought to the global health care table, I’d be dead. And so would a lot of nookers.

Comment on November 21, 2008 08:07 pm
102. DrFeelGood

IAMFREE:
Lighten up, Francis. All that hate is going to burn you up. Hopefully.

Comment on November 21, 2008 08:16 pm
103. Patient

Personally, I am relieved that DrFeelGood probably will not be practicing in the new universal care system, based on his attitude and poor analysis. In fact, I doubt he is a doctor at all, or he is malpracticing on some poor, unsuspecting patients. As another doctor pointed out above, if we paid for med school and relieved him of staff whose only job is to argue with insurance companies until they’re all blue in the face, he would be making /more/ money than being saddled with a med school student loan for eternity.

There should be an island for DrFeelGood and the other neocons where they can go and practice hate, classism, and imperialism on each other and leave the rest of us in peace. That’s what runs the current system and pays for his nice life right now.

Comment on November 22, 2008 03:16 am
104. Canadian

Hopefully this happens soon. Yeah, we have long waiting times in our health care system up north. But, I bet you didn’t know that as soon as you cross the border to Canada, cancer rates are lower, people live longer, people eat healthier, people are more productive, people are in better shape….
It’s proven, it’s fucking scientific fact. Take care of citizens health, and society as a whole benefits. Maybe you Americans wouldn’t be suffering so bad right now if the neo-cons could stop being Factose-intolerant, and take their heads out of their collective asses.It’s so stupid, even BIG BAD SCARY COMMIE CUBA has free health care and takes better care of their citizens. Also, the USA is also faaaar behind in technology infrastructure, education, overall health and productivity because of 8 years of conservative thinking. During the previous administration, the USA has been a model of what DOES NOT work for the rest of the world. hopefully now that will change.

Comment on November 22, 2008 07:25 pm
105. Canadian

Oh what Dr. feelgood, you don’t want insulin, penicillin, and a host of other awesome things the Canadian health care system has come up with? Just because you are ignorant of other countries achievements (due to your’ shitty, shitty educational system) doesn’t make you an expert in the history of health care. Actually, just because you are American DOES NOT instantly make you an expert in anything, which seems to be the attitude down there. Maybe once you are instilled with some humility, manners, and an attitude adjustment, you might actually make a useful member of society.

Comment on November 22, 2008 07:33 pm
106. Scott Free

OUCH! As an American, it’s embarradding, disheartening and scary to live amidst such pervasive ignorance, delusion and somnambulance. Thanks to all Canadians and Europeans for your all your alarm clock entries here, LOVE

Comment on November 25, 2008 10:39 pm
107. Scott Free

Oops! embarrassing…

Comment on November 25, 2008 10:40 pm
108. sdf

sadfs

Comment on November 28, 2008 05:34 pm
109. EPC

Hi Fellows,
National health care is called often as “socialism”. But what we have now? Monopoly. Adjustment tools are taken from free market and controlled by a few corporations. It’s already socialism but not for us. Actually modern world is no more a “free market” . Think about. We live in post capitalism society. Without the counterbalancing it with “socialistic” things it will blow.
Balance – maybe it’s good thing to look for.

Comment on November 30, 2008 08:47 pm
110. Brian

If this is what I have to look forward to, it’s becoming more difficult to find a reason to stay in this country.

Comment on December 5, 2008 10:07 am
111. Charles Nentel

Good spoof. We NEED national equal health insurance for all citizens! I hope that a law like this passes someday.

Comment on December 7, 2008 08:37 pm
112. John Inindaigua

Hello.

Comment on December 8, 2008 08:41 pm

[...] changement climatique, George W. Bush poursuivi pour Haute Trahison, ou encore le vote imminent du nouveau système de protection sociale [...]

Pingback on December 16, 2008 04:11 am
114. Carl Pham

Ha ha! In other news, H.R. 767, which would require that all American schoolchildren reach a proficiency level of “above average” or better in algebra by 2011, will be voted on today.

Opponents have suggested that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to be above average, but such elitist right-wing prejudices have long been discredited by independent experts.

“This bill is only the start of a new era,” said Senator Caroline Kennedy (D-NY), “The wonderful thing about government is that, once it becomes all-powerful, it’s possible for us to simply legislate the outcomes we all want from life, overruling by force of law such out-dated narrow-minded concepts as logic, common sense, and the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Next week, in fact, the Senate takes up my Economic Fairness Law of 2009, which will require every American adult to receive an annual salary of $90,000, or at least $20,000 above the per capita GDP, whichever is more. I can’t understand why Congress didn’t think of this simple solution to the plight of the middle and lower class before!”

Comment on December 19, 2008 02:51 pm
115. Nukebike
116. Heather T.

Since when did people start thinking that they are entitled to things of which they did not earn? It’s a shame. Instead of complaining about not having health care, instead of the middle class having to buy the newest best technology, they could save their money and buy insurance for their family. Fantastic, we have been spoiled for so long our children feel they are “owed” these things. What is going on?

Comment on December 23, 2008 08:01 pm
117. Nye Bevan

USA NHS ftw!

Sorry, can’t stop to write a longer comment, have to go kick in the heads of some so-called “labour” politicians closer to home…

Comment on January 18, 2009 04:45 pm
118. Two-tier health care

Adding more children to the government dole is not going to help the health care system.

Physicians, hospitals, and clinics get reimbursed at rates lower than their expenses for Medicaid (30% below costs), Medicare (10% below costs), and other programs (like SCHIP). Several states don’t pay Medicaid for several months at a time, if at all.

Because of this, there are many areas where it is impossible to find a physician that will accept Medicaid, and the number of physicians that accept Medicare and other government programs is dwindling, as costs rise and reimbursements fall.

We need a two-tier health care system, as is the norm in most of the rest of the world:

1) a national network of state, county, and rural hospitals, clinics, and physicians subsidized by the government (financially and with free electronic medical records and bulk purchasing discounts) in exchange for accepting Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs (such as SCHIP)

2) a private network of hospitals, clinics, and physicians free to set their own rates in order to recoup their costs, and free to negotiate with insurance companies for fair reimbursements for services, instead of the current system (as in California) where insurance companies can set their own arbitrary low rates and are protected by law in doing so

If we don’t institute such a two-tiered system now, health care will continue to crumble. This year.

Comment on January 29, 2009 09:52 pm
119. Nick

2/3 of Americans are obese and I have to pay for the healthcare of some lazy slob and all the health related prolems that come from
over-eating?

I hope you get you “equality” and non-authoritarian society some day (when I’m no longer around of no one I love is near it) and it bleeds you dry and you live in the nightmare of barbarism that will result of all wrecthed refuse that will come here, as a result of your dumb liberal egalitarian policies. Although you’ll probably just blame Bush for the fact that a strong central gov’t has never worked and brought about the death of tens of millions

Comment on March 8, 2009 12:35 am
120. ashley

Marie & MD are one in the same and they are both fucking stupid.

Comment on April 28, 2009 08:32 pm
121. RN

My experience with health care insurance companies, is that they are providing extremely poor service, for a very high cost. For example, I am bombarded by prescriptions our doctors write, but are denied by the insurance company and require “prior authorization”. For those medications, I am required to phone a special number, and wait through endless phone messages, until a human comes on the line who cross examines me about the patient. They ask what meds has he tried in the past, can you document that those (cheaper) meds didn’t work, and on and on. This can take 30 minutes, and hour, and sometimes much of a day to collect documents, fill out papers, write an explanitory letter, and fax it all to the insurance company. All this is the insurance company’s attempt to avoid paying for the care. They use a formulary of older cheaper drugs, and an algorhythm of treatment procedures that they think doctors should adhere to. It is all aimed at getting out of providing care, and causing medical personnel the greatest trouble possible. Similar tactics are used for every form of treatment that a patient may need. This causes huge expenses, and waste of staff time. It is an absurd system. There is no excuse for this to even be in existence. These insurance companies deserve to go out of business.

Comment on May 22, 2009 06:14 pm
122. reo

marie,We are a country based on freedom, Not socialism. We have the right to make choices not be forced to take what obama allows. Socialism leads to control. Eventually other people’s money runs out for the government. Then when everyone has turned over everything how does the govt pay for the entitlements?

You mention Public libraries, public schools, Medicare, the VA system, the postal service, about 50% of the cost of tuition in public institutions of higher ed as socialist systems. They are government run but we CHOOSE to use them. We have other choices. And I am not sure how you gotthe govt to pay 50% of your college either. Medicare you do take at 65 but you also have supplements where you are not under the control of government.

You say, There is no reason whatsoever that this country could not expand the concepts of Medicare or the VA system to all of its citizens. There is a huge problem expanding to illegals and those who refuse to pay. Have you noticed there is no exclusion to illegals and those who come into the US everyday will be added at our expense? Veterans and medicare recepients paid for the healthcare, what did illegals do for the same system?

You say, The infastructure is already in place, and believe me, Medicare or the VA do NOT spend 30 percent of health insurance premiums on administrative costs!!!

Medicare is over its head to the tune of 37 trillion and all of a sudden obama is going to make it okay for 50 million more and no deficit in the program? You think government has lower administrative costs? Take a good look at bankrupt social security and medicare. Ask hospitals what medicaid does when they run out of money. They stop paying.

You say, All I want is the SAME health care my president has. The SAME health care my congress has. I am certainly not asking for SOCIALISM!!

You think you are on the same level as obama and congress? They will not go near the health plan they force on everyone.

You say, I work with a woman who works for under $10 an hour at two jobs, 56 hours a week, and has $90,000 in student loan debt. She has health insurance but has not been to a doctor since her son was born 14 years ago. She can’t afford the co-pays, deductibles, etc. She’s 50 and last time I checked, she should be getting routine mammograms and colonoscopies. If we had a national health insurance, she could.

Well that’s simple, obama’s plan will get rid of her. She will be too costly for the system. How in the H*ll did she get $90,000.00 in student loans and working for 9.00 a hour. You blame the system for that?

You say, I’ve always thought it interesting that a doctor takes an oath to “first do no harm.” Yet, every time an insurance company overrides a doctor’s decision in the treatment of a patient, the doctor is doing just that: harming the patient. Insurance companies hand-cuff doctors because they only care about the bottom line, about making a profit. They could care less about the person behind the insurance ID number.

You have a HMO. Have you looked at the recent obama plan based on HMO’s? It will give the government the right to override ANY care.

You say, Something else people continually fail to see–especially Americans because they are so pragmatic and can only see black-and-white, either/or, this not that, etc. There is no reason we cannot have a hybrid economic system in this country with some things being private and some things being public. My god, our system won’t collapse if we do! In fact, it could strengthen it. Imagine the productivity gains of a healthy workforce?

Hybrid meaning some people pay and some do not? We have that. it is called welfare.

Comment on June 20, 2009 11:20 pm
123. reo

92. MD
81 I think your wrong. I and many others are ready to make the change. This system is harmful to the population as a whole and driven by big business, that could care less about pt. care unless they’re worried about being sued. I’m an interventional cardiologist not an ER doc. The Canadian system is not ideal, but much better then what we have if you look at the whole population.

Then why does Canada send their patients here after they are okayed for treatment? Don’t put words on other physicians mouths. We have wonderful physicians who do care.

First of all it seems everyone is upset with HMO’s intervention into their healthcare. Guess who started that system going amuck? Clinton’s era. Obama wants only managed health care for everyone.

Get over the idea Obama is going to allow you to have your own plan. It is not going to happen. Watch what Obama does, not what he says. The plan is to not tell you everything until the bill is passed. Read Daschles book. And know Daschle was put in charge of your medical registry that the government will use to ration care.

Comment on June 20, 2009 11:30 pm
124. reo

One of Obama’s community organizing scams is hidden in the healthcare bill. Many are saying funding will go to ACORN. How is that going to lower medical costs if we pay for community organizing? Obama’s wealth redistribution.

In the bill, the Affordable Health Choices Act, community transformation plans would be carried out using federal money and be overseen by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The CDC would distribute the money as well as coordinate the various state, local, and “community” entities responsible for carrying out the plans.

According to the bill, both state and local governments are eligible for the grants, as are “national networks of community-based organizations,” a group which is not defined in the bill.

The document details 615 pages of health care reform that would affect millions of Americans, but the section concerning the nationwide dispute over a “public option” only says, “Policy under discussion.”

“I understand that significant parts of the HELP Committee bill are not written, we don’t have a Finance Committee bill written, and yet the president says we have to ram this through really quickly or else momentum for it will slow to the point where it might not pass,” Kyl said.

I think he’s right, but the American people have a right to know what’s in here.”

“There’s a reason why the president has said ‘if we don’t get this done soon, it’s not going to happen,’” Kyl said. “Why? Why does he say that?

“Because he knows that momentum will inevitably slow for something that’s extraordinarily costly, will deny people the coverage that they already have, will ration their health care, and could provide some kind of government insurance company that’s going to drive out the private insurance companies that provide all these options,” he said.

“It will impose new taxes, it will tell employers that they either have to pay a certain amount of money to cover people or they’re going to be fined,” Kyl added.

Comment on June 20, 2009 11:43 pm
125. reo

This man will be in charge of your medical records and obamas health care plan is exactly what is in this book.

“Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis,” in which the former Senate leader lays out without equivocation both the policy he recommends and the tactics for how to pass it.

Daschle ” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them”

Indeed, 20 pages later, in the section in which he identifies “losers” under his plan, Daschle is admirably candid. Among the explicit “losers,” he includes: “Doctors and patients might resent any encroachment on their ability to choose certain treatments, even if they are expensive or ineffectual compared to alternatives. Some insurers might object to new rules that restrict their coverage decisions. And the health-care industry would have to reconsider its business plan (emphasis added).” That is to say, they can stay in business and deliver their services, but only as the government bureaucrats say they may. They no longer would be genuinely independent.

What followed in the book: “When the test revealed a narrowing of the artery, however slight, cardiologists couldn’t resist doing something about it.” Imagine a doctor trying to cure his patient.

Cardiologists may have thought they were carrying out their responsibilities. But under the Daschle(/Obama?) plan, political hacks appointed to the Health board will decide whether your cardiologist is allowed to image your arteries and, if they find blockage, try to treat it successfully.’
But that is not all he doesn’t like about private-sector health care. On Page 174, he points out the dangers of letting drug companies advertise their products to the public: The public may want the drugs even if some Washington bureaucrat likes another drug instead.

He believes that Americans are not entitled to just any care that might do some good. Yep, Page 122: “Many patients with insurance want any care that might do some good, and plenty of doctors will oblige them.”

Recognizing that some of these ideas may not be vastly popular, he recommends two basic legislative strategies. First, seek to pass the legislation early in the first year of the president’s first term, when he is most popular and is least likely to be resisted. That is a valid analysis.

The other strategy, which is very smart, is to leave the nasty details out of the bill. He says that was one of Clinton’s mistakes in 1993. Clinton put too many details in the bill, thus alerting those who disagreed to mount an opposition (pages 108-109). Daschle recommends passing a vague bill and then “a Federal Health Board should be charged with establishing the system’s framework and filling in most of the details. This independent board would be insulated from political pressure.”

Comment on June 20, 2009 11:54 pm
126. reo

121. RN
My experience with health care insurance companies, is that they are providing extremely poor service, for a very high cost. For example, I am bombarded by prescriptions our doctors write, but are denied by the insurance company and require “prior authorization

My insurance is not that way. I have a PPO with no prior authorization needed. So because you dislike this problem you want private companies to go out of business? Why not ask for reform of these problems instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water? If Obama destroys all private companies, who will you work for? Obama is the answer. Government will have all the power and revenue. Who will keep the country going? Have you taken a good look at Venezuela and the poverty there? Chavez regularly takes over any company he wants. Have you taken a good look at obama’s government growing by leaps and bounds and private jobs vanishing everywhere?

Comment on June 21, 2009 12:02 am
127. reo

4. Linda
Hey Dave! Have a nice trip to China or India! Maybe, in your absence I can get your job which pays 3 times what I make as a full-time, graduate-degreed teacher.

How about stop feeling sorry for yourself and go back to school to make the better pay. I am so sick of obama’s people crying someone has more than them.

Your China remark is stupid. And I hope you are not close to my children with your attitude. It is because of my children I want my own healthcare plan and to make our own decisions. I don’t want obama or daschle making healthcare decisions for my family.

No wonder you get paid 3 times less than Dave. The amount you do get is too much. Oh and Hey, teachers have great benefits, paid for by taxpayers. So you want more, you want free?

Comment on June 21, 2009 12:09 am
128. reo

“Medical home” is this decade’s version of HMO-style insurance, according to the Congressional Budget Office, with a primary-care provider to manage your access to costly services such as visits to specialists and diagnostic tests. Medical home providers in “qualified” plans, states the Kennedy bill, will have a “payment structure” based on “incentives” rather than payments for each doctor visit or procedure (section 3101).

These requirements are reminiscent of the unpopular controls HMOs imposed two decades ago that caused public outrage and led to state laws reining in abuses. In December 2008, a Congressional Budget Office report evaluating early drafts of major federal health insurance proposals noted that “medical homes” were likely to resemble the HMO gatekeepers of 20 years ago if cost control is a priority.

That report specifically referred to a payment incentive called the “withhold.” When HMOs became dominant in the early 1990s, they would withhold 10% or more of physicians’ fees until the end of the year and give it back only to the physicians who met targets for limiting how many referrals to specialists or diagnostic tests their patients used.

The targets were so stringent that, if they were exceeded, what a doctor prescribed for you came out of your doctor’s own pocket at the end of the year. This set up a conflict of interest between you and your doctor.

Mr. Obama tried to put a positive spin on such cost controls in his June 13 weekly radio address. He said “if doctors have incentives to provide the best care, instead of more care, we can help Americans avoid unnecessary hospital stays, treatments and tests that drive up costs.” Fair enough — if you want your doctor paid to police your care and to be financially penalized for that extra test or referral you get.

It is reasonable to require that people who accept a government subsidy for health insurance tolerate cost controls to protect taxpayers. But according to the terms of the Kennedy bill, you must enroll in a “qualified” plan or face a fine, even if you and your employer are paying the entire cost of the plan you already have (section 161).

The president has promised that if you like your plan you can keep it. Mr. Kennedy’s bill says that too. It’s doubletalk, as the consequences of nonenrollment make clear. How big a fine will you face? The bill doesn’t specify or set a limit. It says the fine will be enough to “accomplish the goal of enhancing participation in qualifying coverage” (section 161).

If legislation similar to the Kennedy bill lands on Mr. Obama’s desk, he has an obligation to keep his promises to the American people and veto it. And whatever health-insurance law is passed should apply to members of Congress. If it isn’t good enough for them, it shouldn’t be imposed on the rest of us.

Comment on June 21, 2009 12:15 am
129. Mrs. Z

Seriously. Most of you are lying about your jobs, your income, your veteran status, your degrees, and the facts which just makes this discussion sad…but lets not focus on this part of my comment. Let me hear discussion about this next question. Here it goes-

If Medicare, veterans health care, and social security benefits are SO horrible, what makes you think an universal health care system provided by our (not government)tax payers, with rules/standards dictated by our government, will be better? Who do you think made the rules for the programs you are criticizing as failures?

Politicians are our problem no matter what party they support. This is their career. They make decisions to further their career. Voting because of party lines is a big part of our problem. Politicians should be making decisions based on character, morals, and the people who elected them. Instead, they have started to prey on those facing financial or health hardships and pretend they can help them because they want those votes.

Bigger government (which is created by universal health care) will never be our answer.

Comment on July 17, 2009 11:45 am
130. Jimbo, M.D.

In Response to the first part of Mrs. Z’s statement, “most of you are lying about your jobs, your income, your veteran status, your degrees, and the facts which just make this disscusion sad.”
WHO DO YOU THINK MADE THIS WEBSITE?
HONEST PEOPLE???
Have you seen any of the things the YES MEN do?
They’ve continually lied and misrepresented themselves to push their own social and political agenda.
Why would you expect more of the people who openly follow/oppose them?

Comment on July 27, 2009 11:36 pm
131. Redspin

Just wondering where all the Christian right who mostly vote republican on social issues stand on healthcare for all Americans? It just would seem to me to be a very Christian value to give all Americans access to quality healthcare. After all, doesn’t Christianity have a kind of socialist philosophy? But I could be wrong on this.

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Comment on August 13, 2009 12:22 pm
134. Barbro Mustonen

I’m tired of propaganda against National Health Insurance from people who knows absolutely nothing about how it works and will work. More and more people are filing bankruptcy due to medical bills and who gets payed then?! Families have to have fundraiser in order to pay for childrens cancer treatment not paid for by their insurance company!. I’m overwhelmed with bills from cancer treatmen that my insurance company does not pay for. My family lives in Sweden, and if you have or are acutely ill there is NO WAITING PERIOD FOR TREATMENT.DR’s will get paid for their services with NHC, they don’t always in todays system. Today the insurance companies are between the patient and the doctor dictating what they will and will not pay for if you are lucky to have health insurance period.

Comment on October 8, 2009 02:20 pm
135. Aaronsama

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the current bill to pass the Senate. Looking through these remarks, it amazes me how thoughtful and detailed the e-mails of the supporters of healthcare reform are, in contrast to the rants of its detractors so heavy with sarcasm, loaded words, and sensationalism.

Comment on November 10, 2009 11:29 am
136. mrsg

Dear Marine Iraq War Vet,

I am deeply sorry that people on here are disrespecting you. They don’t realize that it is men and women like you that fight so that they can have the RIGHT to SAY disrespectful things like that. I know my apology doesn’t make what he said right. But I am completely embarrassed for him that he doesn’t have the common sense to realize that you have risked your life to save his. I agree with your points. I work my butt off so that my family can live a comfortable life. If people like “B” would get off theirs and work a little harder, this world would be a much better place.

Mrs. G

Comment on December 27, 2009 11:48 am
137. mrsg

Also,
My father is a physician. The government tells my dad how much they will pay him for people on Medicaid and Medicare. How much more regulated do you need? If someone on Medicaid comes in for the flu, the government says “We will only pay you $20.00 (or whatever it is) for this patient.” So that is what he charges (and actually, my dad didn’t even charge the full price for a long time, but the government said he had to and got him in trouble). My husband works for the Department of Human Services. His “clients” go to the emergency room for things like a headache. That has been figured to be about a $1,500 bill each time someone goes into the ER. If the government would make people on Medicaid pay a $20.00 co-pay, I promise you, instead of just going to the ER for their big toe hurting, they would take that $20.00 and go buy three bottles of Asprin. Same with medications. I am a pharmacist and I think if people on Medicaid actually had to PAY for something themselves (even if it is just a $20.00 copay, they would think twice about going to get medications they don’t really need. And for those on Medicare and Medicaid who really DO need the meds, again, the government tells pharmacies how much they will get paid for something, so again, pharmacies are not driving up the cost because the gov tells them how much they will be paid.

Some people need to do some fact checking.

Comment on December 27, 2009 12:06 pm

Nice piece of text I must say. Is it oke for me to make a translation in Dutch with a obvious link to this article?

Comment on January 10, 2010 02:16 pm
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